This is related to a conversation from Space Nakji's site, in which Anglophones not of 100% Korean ethnicity and Korean birth ponder why so many Korean-Koreans think so many "foreigners" don't know squat about even basic Korean things or participate in the most basic of Korean cultural experiences. In essence, the "Do you know Chusok?" line of questioning.
I'm going to come slightly to the defense of some Korean-Koreans who end up making these inane statements by stating that in some cases, it is a matter of a verbatim translation (known in the trade as an L1 transfer, as in a direct transfer from the L1, or 'first language').
As the lead-up to an important question about scheduling, one person I know asked me a few weeks ago, in English, "Do you know Chusok?"
"Of course I know Chusok," I answered. "I've lived here how many years? I even teach my American students about it!"
It was a pretty inane question coming from someone who not only knew that I had lived here a very long time, had celebrated Chusok, and even had mentioned to her that my birthday was around Chusok.
But then I asked her, for shits and giggles, to tell me what she had meant to say in Korean.
She was a little confused about what I wanted her to say, but I explained briefly, and so she began, "추석 아시죠?..."
So, "Do you know Chusok," should have been... would have been (if coming from a native English speaker), "You know the Chusok holiday coming up, well, I was wondering if you would be able to..."
In other words, completely different from how I interpreted it. We native English speakers do this all the time: "You know the McDonald's up the street? There was a shooting there because someone wanted an Egg McMuffin after 10:30 and they wouldn't sell him one."
When I start to say, "You know the McDonald's up the street?" the person listening knows that that rhetorical question is just a starter for more pertinent information. The person doesn't jump down my throat and say, "Do you think I'm an idiot? I've lived in this neighborhood for twenty-five years! Of course I know the McDonald's up the street! I go there all the time! You and I went there last week and had an Egg McMuffin, even! Do you think I'm senile?! Well, do you?!"
The more degrees away from native-speaking ability, the less this rhetorical starter can seem like a rhetorical starter. With a pause after the starter, bolstered by unfortunate non-native word choice, the rhetorical starter can easily seem like the showcase sentence.
Do you know Chusok? Sphere: Related Content
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You raise a really good point here. There's quite a bit of difference between "아시죠?"," 아시나요?", and "아시군요!" which gets lost in translation.
ReplyDeleteI would add, though, that it's not just "Anglophones not of 100% Korean ethnicity and Korean birth" who stumble over this. I've known "full" Korean-Americans who were offended by similar questions. (Unless by "100%" you meant Korean nationals...) I remember one "full" Korean-American I knew who got really sick of being asked "Where are you from?" everytime she spoke Korean (she was sometimes mistaken for Chinese or Japanese because of her accent). Then finally, one day, she was asked that question by someone and got upset with them only to have them say, "No, no, I mean where are you from in Korea?" She realized belatedly that the question didn't always mean that they thought she was a "foreigner" but that they may have misinterpreted her accent as dialect.
Also, as much as I gripe about these things from the perspective of one who's racially mixed/ambiguous, I've also seen full-Korean friends occasionally get similar reactions, such as the "You can eat dukbokki?!" or "My, you use chopsticks well!" type of comments. I don't think they get it as often, perhaps, but it's certainly been known to happen (hence my pondering the border between "foreigner" and "Korean".
Kushibo,
ReplyDeleteyou comment was well-written and erudiate, and obviously you are a learned(accent over the 'E'please) man, but I believe that you are only half right. Yes, in the example of chusok, I saw clearly that the McDonald's example mirrored(sp)it well. But the assumptions that one does not like a particular food because of the hue of one's skin is a falacy(sp) of logic that is pervasive in korean culture. Consider this: ther are many, so called 'truisms' that all Koreans know about foreigners. To wit: we dont like spicy food. We are not adept at using chopstick, we probably dont know where they told us they live(oh, you probably dont know, but I live in Chamshil') An example: I took an asian date, a Khmer girl, to a chinese restaurant in Koreatown in L.A. So, we ordered and the Korean waitress brought us two side dishes. But the Koreans in back of us got 4. When I asked why we didnt get the Mu-sang-che, she said americans dont like it. I asked how she knew this, and the reply was that EVERYONE knew it. I said my date was not american. No response. Obviously she must not have like it either. I went to the front and asked to speak to the manager. She came out and I asked her why we did not get the Mu-sang-che. Anf the response was the same. Americans dont like it. EVERYONE knows. Somehow, through cultural osmosis, there are these truisms that all koreans seems to KNOW about us non-koreans. I often wonder how they spread. In conclusion, I love mu-sang-che and can make it. It is easy.
Panchan R Us.
BTW, I enjoy your blog.
Inspired by Space Nakji, I'm going to start telling people I live in the border town between Foreigner & Korean.
ReplyDeleteAnd by "Anglophones not of 100% Korean ethnicity and Korean birth," I was including the "full bloods" of Korean descent who are native English speakers or primary English speakers. Anyone who thinks and dreams in English mostly, who would find the "Do you know kimchi?" questions annoying.
And kimcheemonster, I agree with you about the stereotyping, but my post here wasn't really getting into that so much. I'll write more about that later.
There is plenty of chance for misunderstandings. I dont buy the argument of foreigners that get 'offended' about Koreans asking something that seems silly (in their subjective opinion). The fact is that a lot of foreigners have precious little knowledge about Korea, Korean customs, etc, so Koreans are forced to assume that the foreigner doesnt know anything.
ReplyDeleteSome foreigners claim that they speak Korean but that Koreans wont allow them to speak in Korean. Thats not true at all. The Koreans speak to them in English because their Korean pronunciation is so bad it is unintelligible. For example, when I speak Korean most Koreans would be too embarrased to continue in English because their English is usually nowhere near as good as my Korean (not to boast - just to make a point).
By the same token you have 'Asian Americans' getting 'offended' because of the same kind of questions. Really, they have no basis for being offended. For example, in my home base of Sydney Australia, some Asian Australians get offended if you think they might be foreign students (in a city literally jam packed with foreign students). Since many are also offended by questions of citizenship status (you are just supposed to know, as if you have telepathy), its a no win situation, the tyranny of the offended.
I dont by the whole 'offended' game, whether whitey does it in Korea, or if Asians do it in my country.
Whether you by (sic) it or not, it is a fact that some people are offended by assumptions like these...
ReplyDelete"Whether you by (sic) it or not, it is a fact that some people are offended by assumptions like these..."
ReplyDeleteThanks for taking the trouble of pointing out my typo. I guess that makes you better than me, and serves as a good assertion of superiority.
I guess the good thing is that I dont care if people are offended or not. They offend me too.
Don't worry, Matthew. Yours is a common affliction which has been with us for quite a while. The social psychologist extrodiaire Berke Breathed first named the condition as "offensensitivity" but I'm having trouble tracking down the specific, uh, "publication" where he said it. (Y'know. Copyright and all that.)
ReplyDeleteBack on topic, I think it's common for us Homo Sapiens (though I can't speak for Cephalopoda Teuthida) to take umbrage when strangers make assumptions about us based on our appearance, or when an acquaintance says something which indicates they don't know us very well.
If this happens to someone enough, especially in a place where they've made a "home" (even temporarily) it becomes an affront to their sense of being part of the community. Some people clearly don't give a rat's ass about what anyone else things besides themselves and would find it ridiculous to be offended at the things that Space Nakji and Kushibo wrote about.
Anyhow, going back, assuming I'm even half-right about why people might get offended then it puts a bit of a sad spin on the story that Kushibo told because his story shows that the person he was talking with assumed that he *did* know about Chusok, in other words, accepting him as an insider to that part of the culture. According to my theory that would be a "good thing"(tm).
Two other thoughts occurred to me: first is that when one is a bumbler in a foreign language (speaking from experience), everything you hear and say is literal. Second, is that this whole problem could be solved if everyone ended the "rhetorical starter" with, "yes?" or, "right?" So, let's spread the word and start a revolution.
Uh... substitute "thinks" for "things" in the third paragraph above. Shoulda read that more carefully...
ReplyDeleteYeah, and "extrordinaire" for "extrodiaire." Anyone want to try for more? I think I've embarrassed myself enough for now....
ReplyDelete